To celebrate series two of his show, Tom Kerridge Secrets of the Pub Kitchen, we set out to chat to Tom about all things food, from his ultimate pub grub dish to a secret that's let slip in the new series...
Have you always wanted to pursue a career in the kitchen or was there a particular moment that sparked your passion?
"I went into a kitchen as an 18-year-old because I needed money. It was a job as a kitchen porter, but it was the moment I entered into that space that I fell in love with the environment. It wasn't necessarily about the food. It was a case of dropping into the industry that I got really excited about- the late nights, the early mornings, the energy, the atmosphere and the adrenaline-fuelled services. The excitement of the industry grabbed me."
With more adults in the UK embarking on a sober journey, how do you think the future of UK pubs will look? Do you think they’ll become more food-focussed?
"I think pubs are beginning to evolve and adapt anyway. There's always a space for amazing beers, a great wine list and fantastic distilled spirits but there's much more non-alcoholic drinks that are coming onto pub menus that are still very grown-up and mature, and can still have a distilled spirit, but alcohol-free. I think people's lifestyles are most definitely changing, but pubs are always there as part of a community. They're there for social interaction, which is something we will always want."
As the brains behind the only gastro pub in history to possess two Michelin stars, do you have one piece of advice for other gastro-publicans who are attempting to go above and beyond the standard pub grub?
"My advice for anybody trying to drive and raise the standards of what they cook and serve is always to stay true to yourself. Believe in your own skill set. Surround yourself with amazing people... Understanding your weak points is one of the biggest things to recognise. Know your strengths but also make sure that the bits that you're not so good at, you teach yourself how to do them. And then find people that enjoy doing the things that you don't like doing and build it all together...
The one thing that I would say, like anybody who owns their own business, there's never a day off. You’re constantly working. I think the biggest thing with pubs and hospitality is the fact that the profit margins, they're never massive. You're in it because you love it and you have to love every single minute of doing it and you have to love being a part of trying to drive something forward and pushing yourself. So as long as you maintain the foundation of passion that you have and why you've done it in the first place, you'll be absolutely fine. And don't be scared of making difficult or hard decisions. Enjoy the process, surround yourself with amazing people and just enjoy being a part of one of the most amazing industries there is."
You now own multiple pubs across the UK, each with its own style. In The Secrets of the Pub Kitchen, we get a sneaky peek into The Coach and the team behind it. How does The Coach differ from The Hand and Flowers?
"The Coach is a little bit more fluid compared to the other businesses because the menu can change daily. Sometimes it might even change in the middle of service. We'll do a rotisserie or a roast of the day and once it's sold, we might get something new, or the gamekeeper might turn up in game season with some Partridge or Pheasant. Things can grow and change almost daily at The Coach. The Hand and Flowers is very structured. It has 2 Michelin stars, and you can never really have an off day. Everything is about process and trying to eliminate any variables. The Coach, it uses the same amazing ingredients, skill sets, techniques, and similar style of chefs. In fact, Sarah the head chef was also at The Hand and Flowers. So there's this huge skill set and technique that she possesses for herself, but it's also a little bit more of her personality that's gone into those dishes as opposed to The Hand and Flowers, where nothing changes without me overseeing it. The Coach, it's a little freer."
What is one dish you think should be on every gastro pub menu?
"I'm not going to single out one particular dish, but you always need to have safety dishes. Some people will go to pubs because they prefer it and they're uncomfortable going to top end restaurants. They feel more comfortable going in where they know they can have a pint of beer or a gin and tonic and not have to spend £200 on a bottle of wine… they want to be in that safety space. And the menu should always read like that as well. Things like soups, steaks, Crème Brûlée, or traditional dishes to make people feel like they're in safe hands. Chefs can be creative and you can write wonderful things on menus and twist and change them, but I think you always need to have some go to safety dishes that people will feel comfortable ordering."
Are there any particular chefs who inspire you?
"There’s a huge amount of chefs that I find inspiring and have been influential in my career from early days. People like Marco Pierre White and the Roux brothers are amazing, but even now there's some fantastic young chefs that are creative and exciting. They're not necessarily in terms of the how we look at our menus, but they're inspiring in terms of the energy levels that they create in the British food scene. Someone like Jeremy Chan who is cooking at a Ikoyi or Ben Marks at Perilla. These are young chefs that are taking great ingredients and very much making them themselves. Any chef that's working at top end levels, they're all inspiring. I know how much hard work it takes so anybody who's still doing it and cooking at that level, I’m full of admiration for them."
There's no denying that you have a passion for a good pub grub. But we want to know what the perfect experience at the pub is for you?
"It's normally a lunchtime. I do like a Sunday lunch at the pub. It’s kind of the classic go to I think for everybody. Virgin Mary, nice and spicy is always going to be there. Pate en croute or something wrapped in pastry as a starter is always good. Traditional roast for me is just amazing on a Sunday lunch. Sometimes it might be something a little bit more interesting but if you've got roast pork and crackling, you can't go far wrong with that. And then to finish, for me, the French do puddings the best. Whether it's choux buns, profiteroles, Crème Brûlée, or Crème caramel, those sort of French style simple desserts for me are amazing.
What is it about modern British pub food that you think makes it so special?
"We embrace seasonality so well in this country. You've got 4 defined seasons that we move with within pubs and that's very exciting. It is also the only style of eatery in the world where you might have a Korean-style grilled mackerel dish followed by an Indian-spiced main course and a French dessert… and it sits completely normally. Or you could throw in roast beef and Yorkshire pudding in the middle. That wouldn't happen in France or Italy, it wouldn't happen in Japan. It wouldn't happen anywhere else; a particular style of cuisine would run all the way through. Whereas on a great British pub menu you can embrace the fantastic foods and cuisines from all over the world and sit there with a pint of real ale and everything that you're eating feels just completely in one environment."
In Series 1 you let it slip that the burgers are cooked for five hours to achieve that perfect juicy texture. Can you reveal a secret that is let slip in Series 2?
In season 2 we film a lovely little Gala pie, which is normally sliced cold with an egg in the middle, but we bake it. So, it's a bit like a cross between a warm pork pie and a Scotch egg. It's served with this sauce, which we call Matson spice sauce. Matson is the estate where I grew up in Gloucester. It’s a play on basically fish and chip shop Curry sauce, and we make it beautifully cooked out vegetables. It's absolutely delicious. Matson appears across all our pubs and restaurants, but it's something that’s based on a council estate chip shop. And I love the fact that this brilliant little area of Gloucester gets a name check on all of our menus. It's something that I'm super proud of.
We also see you showing your viewers how to get a lovely caramelisation on a steak in Series 1 . Can you share a takeaway tip from the second series?
"In Series 2 we talk about heavily roasting mince, caramelising beef and steak to drive those lovely meaty flavours. So never be scared of heavy cooking, and by heavy cooking I mean deep caramelisation and deep colour because quite often people shy away from it. It's the same with making sauces or braises. Getting the caramelisation and colour onto the pan is absolutely fine because that is all about flavour."
Can you name any gastro pubs in the UK that really stand out to you?
"We've got so many amazing gastro pubs that are just fantastic places to go and eat and visit in great parts of the country where they embrace the food from around their area. The Sportsman down in Seasalter in Kent is amazing. Stephen Harris, who's the chef there is absolutely brilliant. The environment is fantastic. The pub is so wonderful inside and he cooks these incredible dishes. Also Andrew Pern at The Star Inn At Harome, which is up in Yorkshire, again, another chef that embraces British culture, food, the community, the area, seasonality. A phenomenal cook. Both of those pubs are just brilliant and have been on the British food scene and for longer than The Hand and Flowers. Finally, Paul Ainsworth's The Mariners Public House in Rock is a magical place, super brilliant. Amazing in the summertime if you can get in, but all year round it just has one of the most beautiful settings and is a brilliant pub."
Do you have any recommendations for anyone visiting Marlow?
"Atul Kochhar has got two amazing, brilliant, Indian inspired restaurants that are just fantastic. And then if you want the best coffee, not just in Marlow but anywhere, a place called Coopers has the best coffee around."
"Finally, what is your proudest moment of your cooking career today?"
"I think the proudest moment of my cooking career to date revolves around the team. We opened The Hand and Flowers with two other guys in the kitchen, one part-time front of house and my wife and my best mate behind the bar and we ended up achieving 2 Michelin stars as a big team of people. That's all to do with the people that have come on the journey. So many of those people joined us, and helped to take it to achieving 2 Michelin stars are still with us now. We've gone from a small handful of people to around about 75 people at The Hand and Flowers and being the first pub to achieve that level of recognition in the Michelin guide was fantastic for everybody that was involved. Personally, that sits amazing, but I think the thing that we're most proud of is the fact that there was all these people that came on the journey with us."
Stream Tom Kerridge, Secrets of the Pub Kitchen on Discovery+
